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ause top 97Oct04 3:54 am Action Figure from Ghek the Kaldane Heh...Lizard is blowing into town just long enough to pick out a dress and then leave again... 97Oct04 3:58 pm from Kitty Cosmos Yep... We spent the afternoon looking for a bridesmaid's dress and a dress for the Mother of the Bride. No luck, so far, so maybe we can get her back to look, again... 97Oct06 8:11 pm Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader I can't believe this. I'm actually modeming on my MacIntosh. This is too cool! 97Oct06 9:57 pm from Kitty Cosmos So should we welcome or "boo" another Mac to the board? (j/k)(I think) 97Oct08 6:09 am I'm Ghek & URNOT from Ghek the Kaldane Hopefully the "bomby" days are behind us...... Chevy Chase is 54 today.....heh.... 19 years ago, Billy Joel's "The Stranger" album was released.... Mac's are welcome...we even have a Mac room I think.... 97Oct10 12:40 pm from Kitty Cosmos I *like* Billy Joel... even went to his concert a couple of years ago... but only have one CD: "River of Dreams." It's a good one, though. Welcome Mac! 97Oct10 12:41 pm from Kitty Cosmos BTW, wasn't yesterday Persephone's 18th Bday? 97Oct10 4:43 pm wheredidthetimego from The Eternal Yam Yes'm....she is now legal 97Oct11 7:17 pm wheredidthetimego from The Eternal Yam BoredBoredBoredBoredBoredBoredBoredBoredBoredBored..... 97Oct12 12:22 pm from Kitty Cosmos Does this mean you're "bored" with the "board," Yam? Say it isn't so! 97Oct14 7:13 am HappyB-DayPersefoni from Ghek the Kaldane Better late then never...I was in LaLa land over the weekend...somehow visted the Santa Barbara Zoo.....(ask me about my cool elephant video sometime) the cat and the tomato tree survived without me... 97Oct14 4:32 pm Cavalier Images from Petrouchka I am caller 26708... hmmm. At work, corp 26708 is Las Vegas.... 97Oct16 12:50 am from Kitty Cosmos I've never been to Las Vegas... it's supposed to have grown up into a lot more than a strip of neon in the desert. 97Oct16 7:28 pm wheredidthetimego from The Eternal Yam Vegas is cool man...went there for my 21st 97Oct17 10:48 pm from Kitty Cosmos Oops... looks like the board got stuck in Trade Wars... 97Oct18 4:17 am Pretzel Boy from Ghek the Kaldane Indeed it was....hate it when that happens....someones likely to get towed... I went to Vegas back in '81....took a nap there on my way to the Grand Canyon and points east...did talk to a lady from there last weekend...a vendor of celebrety photos and sigs....(got me a nice picture of Xander and his women from Buffy the Vampire Slayer)...Kitty and Metrobabe should be back on the net soon... oto ew nter ngoto elp Rykor Corral> .Read global new Perversity 101 17 messages - 1 new oto ew nter ngoto elp Perversity 101> read ump ext

ause top 97Aug20 8:04 am Cosmic Carnival from Ghek the Kaldane ...the surviving tomato tree (of 4) is still 3 feet tall.....but it now has a 2 foot twin comming out of the base....which is sucking all the juice and the leaves are falling off the taller part.....now I have rotated the plant to encourage big brother...probably a good architechure(sp) for an indoor plant, but I can just see the tree heavy with fruit (I wish) splitting at the base and lying on the ground.....its still 4 to 6 months before I am supposed to see any fruit....then its year round, happily ever after...right....it all still could be a big joke on me.... 97Oct18 5:33 am Pretzel Boy from Ghek the Kaldane My car will hit 180,000 miles next week......perhaps I should get a street legal backup vehicle..... Things to share 84 messages - 2 new oto ew nter ngoto elp Things to share] read ump ext

ause top 97Oct04 4:25 am Action Figure from Ghek the Kaldane Yep, got me a Kaldane action figure today.... 97Oct05 8:53 am Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader right on. 97Oct08 6:18 am I'm Ghek & URNOT from Ghek the Kaldane And Tars Tarkas, the Plantman, the City of Gold Tarzan, and Tarzan of Mars (?)....heh Happiness is... 70 messages - 5 new oto ew nter ngoto elp Happiness is...> read ump ext

ause top 97Sep18 4:38 am movin' N shakin' from Ghek the Kaldane ....(havn't got it in my hot little hands yet....the picture part may not be very clear as the antenna didn't get tuned.....after I watch it you may borrow it..) 97Oct08 6:56 am I'm Ghek & URNOT from Ghek the Kaldane ....a new Micropendium.....Burroughs Action Figures.... 97Oct08 7:47 am Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader A new MacIntosh AND a Apple IIC! 97Oct14 7:35 am HappyB-DayPersefoni from Ghek the Kaldane ....a good Buffy episode (like last night) 97Oct14 9:03 am Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader 1,029,550 on Mr. Do! (Points, that is.) 97Oct18 4:38 am Pretzel Boy from Ghek the Kaldane ....Friday nights... Infobahn/OtherBBS's 12 messages - 4 new oto ew nter ngoto elp Infobahn/OtherBBS's] read ump ext

ause top 97Oct04 4:34 am Action Figure from Ghek the Kaldane Compuserve is now offering unlimited service for $25 a month...I have it....so I have been chacking out the web a bit more... 97Oct06 8:23 pm Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader Does anyone know of any MacIntosh BBS's? Since I have a MacIntosh Plus, I'd like to find some accessories. Let me know. Thanx much. 97Oct08 6:26 am I'm Ghek & URNOT from Ghek the Kaldane CCN should list a few.... I would try "Pete's Place" 756-3761 ...says its the home of Apple Sac and Daug... 97Oct08 7:48 am Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader Thanks, Ghek. 97Oct14 7:36 am HappyB-DayPersefoni from Ghek the Kaldane I didn't put up last weeks messages on the web yet...so it will include this weeks....I then will have over a months worth of messages on my website... TI Tavern 13 messages - 1 new oto ew nter ngoto elp TI Tavern] read ump ext

ause top 97Oct04 4:30 am Action Figure from Ghek the Kaldane I have been using my TI all week to work out formulas for Lazer Force results.....love that accuracy......Frodo Underhll (Lyle Hill) droped off about 12 boxes of TI stuff.....if I was looking for any TI stuff for anyone, I am sure to have it available now!.... 97Oct08 6:55 am I'm Ghek & URNOT from Ghek the Kaldane Amazing stuff...original development "Black Box" for the TI Logo cartrage..its larger than a TI....have to open it and see whats inside.....A TI software collection larger than my own...(disks)....I probably do have "everything" now ...(of course I do have the TI CD-Rom with 120 meg of stuff on it.. ;) ) [and a cat purring on my shoulder] Got my new micropendium today....it has changed size and now is about the same size as a fat TI cartrage manual.... IBM Share [The Gridley Wave] 100 messages - 22 new oto ew nter ngoto elp IBM Share: read ump ext

ause top 97Oct02 10:51 am Afterbirth Soup from Sausage @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA *hork8 *hork** 97Oct08 18:04 from Ronbo @ ECBBS Does any one have the HP DeskJet 400L Color Inkjet? How good is it? 97Oct08 22:37 from Freddy @ ECBBS 400? Is that an older model? I have the 500c. It's cool. My friend has the newer one...I have no clue what number. The 1600c is very cool! 97Oct09 01:04 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS The ALPS has an advantage that the 'ink' is WATERPROOF. It also has Metalic 'inks' that are also OPAQUE so they can be used on colored paper without the colors shifting due to bleed through from the color of the base material. (The 'inks' are actually ribbons) 97Oct10 01:31 from hank @ ECBBS Hmmm, thermal printing using fade and water resistant/proof inks? 97Oct09 13:41 from daveyrob @ SBBS I picked up a HP 550C a couple of years ago (used) and have had no problem with it at all. Very dependable and friendly machine. 97Oct10 1:18 pm from Kitty Cosmos @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA I have been given the okay (tentatively) to get a new PC. Can y'all give me your idea of what a good system contains? I'm not big on games, so most of my use would be word processing and that type of thing. I was thinking of something faster than a Pentium 200 with 32 megs of RAM and a 1.5 gig harddrive. What's the advantage to getting a Pentium II? Is it better to get a color or lazer printer? and what should the dot pitch be? I think a good color printer would be better, but Dave (my friend from Intel) insists that it's better to go lazer. Is it just a personal preference thing, since the HP color printers are so good these days? That reminds me... I keep forgetting what the dot pitch should be for a good monitor. I'm currently working with a 1.44 baud modem, but it seems *really* slow when I'm downloading stuff off the Internet. All the equipment I am currently working with is on loan from my friend, but her husband will need it back next month. My own system is a 286 with 640K of RAM and a 20 meg HD... and a flaky keyboard to boot! So... Can you help? BTW... I'm trying to keep it under $1500.00. 97Oct11 00:26 from Freddy @ ECBBS Actualy, the AMD is the fastest "intel" pentium out there. Intel is 2nd and cuyrex third. Then, when it gets to the pentium II, Intel is trying to screw the little man...trying to change the chipset so that AMD and Cyrex have to change production and will be a year behind. *BUT* I hear that AMD is already researching a chipset (70pin...or whatever the current standard is) that will be faster then the pentium II. COol, eh! We're talking who is going to make the new computers? Intel? Or AMD? I'm going with AMD. (not voting, but going with) Curly, what brand board did you buy? Also, what brand video card? (also, who the hell buys EDO ram...that's the memory of 1996 for god's sake!....BUY A DIMM!!!! Or SGRAM...there are many faster rams out there now.) 97Oct12 12:40 pm from Kitty Cosmos @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA Thanks for the input, Freddy... I think. Part of that message went right over my head, but I'll keep it in mind. Anybody else have an opinion as to what I need to set up a good, basic system? 97Oct12 17:51 from Freddy @ ECBBS Heh. Though, the difference between being on the internet on a 486 and a pentium is pretty large. My mom has a 486-133 and a Pentium-100. The Pentium is hella fast with the same modem. The funny thing is that in here neck of the woods there are maybe 10 thousand people on the internet and the backbone runs about 10 miles away from her house. Her internet connection is about 3 times faster then anything I've seen out here. I'll probably get sick when I go back out there to take a look at her comp again. 97Oct13 01:25 from Freddy @ ECBBS Whatever you say JoePhoto. I took the modem out of the Pentium and dropped it into the 486. Major slow down. It was about 1/2 the speed. A 486 processes information way different then a pentium. Many programs will run on a 486, but most of those will run better on a pentium. The internet is full of video and sound an motion and pictures and frames, and etc., etc. , etc. A pentium can process it better. I love how you try to say it aint so, when it happened. 97Oct14 07:27 from Freddy @ ECBBS That aint quite true. I can't connect over 28.8 right now at my little house, but then again it's an old house. I have a friend of mine living over by the River Rock is connecting at 31 or so. Sucks. Heh. That's the first connection at over 28.8 that I've heard of to date too. Oh, he lives in an Apartment. And as far as the scene I told you about (my mom's computer and modem)...it's true...believe it...or not. No skin of my boot. 97Oct14 15:53 from Turk @ ECBBS Kitty, for a printer, minimum DPI of 300. Most printers do better. My Epson Stylus Color 600 can do up to 720x720 on plain paper. I think Fry's has them around $269. 97Oct14 17:12 from Turk @ ECBBS As for dot pitch on a monitor, go for .28 or less. Other considerations are refresh rate and size. The NEC E500 is a nice 15" monitor. So is the Sony 100SX. 97Oct14 18:09 from Damage Inc. @ ECBBS Well, sure, if the house's wiring for a POTS line is bad.. most of those problems are due to resistance on the line, probably because wires are exposed and touching other wires... sure, you're going to get lousy connect rates. Most of the time on POTS lines, these problems come from people who wired telephone jacks themselves without really knowing how to do it right. 97Oct14 21:11 from Freddy @ ECBBS .28 or less? What the hell you on a 12" monitor? Anything over 14" and you better get at least .25 and preferable .22. 97Oct14 22:18 from Turk @ ECBBS Most monitors claiming those dot pitches are using different measurements than the usual diagonal. A few manufacturers measure several ways and report them all. There is nothing "wrong" with measuring different ways, it just causes confusion. Read comp.sys.pc.hardware.video a few weeks and look for posts from Bob Myers of Hewlett Packard's display division for some expert views on why dot pitch values are often meaningless. Also, shadow mask versus aperture grill issues. 97Oct14 23:53 from Freddy @ ECBBS heh...work there. 97Oct15 02:03 from Nexus @ ECBBS Damn, I never see those posts. Must be busy with the STB Velocity and 3Dfx posts...:P 97Oct16 1:29 am from Kitty Cosmos @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA What is a good dot (?) for a scanner? My dad will be using it for photographs, so it will have to be sharp. 97Oct16 1:30 am from Kitty Cosmos @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA BTW... Thanks for the input so far! 97Oct16 10:08 pm Newsflash! from.... from Nightwind @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA Kitty: It's DPI Dots Per Inch. For photographs 600x600 would be fair, but if it's business quality he needs, 720x720 is a minimum. 97Oct18 4:42 am Pretzel Boy from Ghek the Kaldane @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA I am considering getting Win95.....sombody hold me back.... Trading Post 100 messages - 2 new oto ew nter ngoto elp Trading Post) read ump ext

ause top 97Oct04 4:09 am Action Figure from Ghek the Kaldane @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA Got me a Kaldane action figure....strange nobody told me they existed... 97Oct05 8:57 am Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA Good! i'm still looking for Q*Bert and some other games (Car Wars, Hunt the Wumpus and such.) I'm also still needing theAtari printer and the Commodore Vic 20 carts and stuff for the Timex Sinclair. 97Oct08 6:27 am I'm Ghek & URNOT from Ghek the Kaldane Give me a list in mail again...broken down by computer...I am sorting through a pile of stuff and may find it. SF STAR TREK etc 8 messages - 2 new oto ew nter ngoto elp SF STAR TREK etc: read ump ext

ause top 97Jun22 7:14 pm Fear This> 3! from Tomcat Leader @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA Please tell me someone saw the season finale of DS9. I can't believe the size of that fleet. I counted at least 15 dreadnoughts, 10 galaxy class, 25 xcelsior lass, and 20 vor'cha class as well as the bird-of-preys. Can you say "Clean house with the Jem'hdar, Cardassians and the Dominion."? I can't wait for September! 97Oct08 6:57 am I'm Ghek & URNOT from Ghek the Kaldane @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA I guess no one saw the show..... 97Oct18 5:36 am Pretzel Boy from Ghek the Kaldane @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA Star Trek 9: Thirst for Moola will be directed by Johnathan Frakes.... Heinleins "Starship Troopers" will hit theaters on November 7th.....the toys have been in Toys R Us for a month..... The Gridley Wave 12 messages - 1 new oto ew nter ngoto elp The Gridley Wave] read ump ext

ause top 97Oct04 5:30 am from Asgard File "action.jpg" uploaded by Ghek the Kaldane: Desc: Set of Edgar Rice Burroughs action figures by Trendmasters, Inc from the Tarzan, Mars and InnerEarth series. One is a Kaldane figure. -Ghek the Kalane 97Oct08 7:06 am I'm Ghek & URNOT from Ghek the Kaldane Found a cool John Carter of Mars site......Vad Valor, Ulysses Paxton and other characters like me hang out there.... EIB/Local Politics In these hallowed halls are discussions of the wisdom proclaimed on the cutting edge of societal evolution (i.e. on the Rush Limbaugh show) Please do not demonstrate your ignorance by attempting to contribute without listening to the program...if after six weeks of indoctrination, you disagree with the host, you are welcome to say so..."DITTO" However, since Rush is so involved in reporting what office holders and wannnabe office holders are up to we will include local politics here also. 100 messages - 100 new oto ew nter ngoto elp EIB/Local Politics: read ump ext

ause top 97Oct08 17:37 from Freddy @ ECBBS You both are commenting on these "parties" as if they are God. Some huge, mega-huge, being that you can't visualize. Look at the people. That's who's to blaim. I form form a group on a piece of paper of Hitler, Lenin, Marx, Musilini, etc. Yet, that paper isn't to blaim for that group. They each are responsible for their own actions. Blaim the people. If Bill Clinton molested a women that worked for him, then Bill Clinton is responsible for that. Who cares if he's president, and also a Democrat? He may be a Metodist Minister too, so what? You break a law, and commit a crime, then *YOU* are to blame. Not the people you work for, or you parents, or your religion, etc. There is nothing wrong with Democrates (much...I don't agree with their agenda), nor Republicans. It's the people in them that are f**ked up! 97Oct08 19:41 from sinner @ ECBBS the two party system effectively excludes other parties in many ways. there is only one party...the republicrats. and they own the system. 97Oct08 22:39 from Freddy @ ECBBS It has nothing to do with the parties. It aint a two party system either. The people in them are the things people should be concerned with. Actually, if they would quit with the TV things would be much easier and better. Nothing is so bad right now that we can't just leave things alone. But people are always trying to tinker with things to get them to run a little better. 97Oct09 01:11 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS All I have ever asked for is EXAMPLES. You can produce only Nixon when I can produce hundreds of Democrat crooks. I can also produce 100's of examples of WROTHWHILE legislation the Republicans have proposed, (or PASSED since they are in control)... You cannot produce one example of any worthwhile legislation ever passed or sponsored by the Democrats. It was a Carter apointee that just overturned TermLimits. It was Wilson that vetoed the GunBill... It was Republicans that finally brought in the Line Item Veto; and got some form of budget restraints; (modest though they may be)...!!! 97Oct09 01:16 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS And yes, I think Oliver North is a Great Patriotic American. 97Oct09 02:10 from sinner @ ECBBS one that disobeyed the law of the land AND his oath as a military officer. 97Oct09 03:42 from Jetrock @ ECBBS Thing is, Joe, 'worthwhile' to you means something that matches up to YOUR personal expectations. Legislation that I think is worthwhile is awful to you, and legislation you love is hideous crap to me. So it's pointless for me, or anyone, to provide you with examples of how the Democrats live up to your fascistic standards. And I've provided plenty of examples of corruption, lawbreaking, and outright contempt for humanity on the part of Republicans including Reagan, Bush, and plenty of their cronies, but you think the same stuff that horrifies me is 'patriotic'. It's just pointless. 97Oct09 07:10 from Freddy @ ECBBS Line Item Veto = hideous crap? 97Oct09 09:04 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS I guess you are 100% correct when you say that legislation I like and You like are different...:) I happen to like almost every facit of the Contract WITH America.... I am willing to bet you were one that prefered the Contract "ON" America title better... :) 97Oct09 09:40 from Curly Surmudgeon @ ECBBS Joe, do you like the "Airline Security Act of 1995?" 97Oct09 10:12 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS Very mixed there Curly.... It is hard to argue with genuine and REASONABLE security measures... but I certainly agree it goes too far in many respects. I can see where it has impacted you, and sympathize with it.... I personally used to fly extensively with a large and full TOOL box... NO MORE... and it is a pain in the ass to check it every time... especially since it has been vandalized twice. I also often got to the airport very late, and I used to be able to simply RUN to the plane with the tool box and walk on.... NO MORE. I now have to get there 30 min earlier, and waste the time checking in the box, (and waiting for it to come out with baggage dilivery -- when I also could RUN out the airport when I arrived and start my work 30-45 min sooner. I ususally had doctors and hospitals (Heart Catherization Labs) shut down until I arrived,, and sometimes patients waiting on the table for me to fix them. It simply has TOTALLY changed the way I worked. 97Oct09 13:54 from Jetrock @ ECBBS one person's "genuine and reasonable security measures" are another man's "unreasonable search and seizure". And yes, I do refer to the odious "contract" as a "contract ON america", with Congress as paid hitmen to kill what little compassion and justice is left in this country. Freddy: The Line-Item Veto... well, it all depends on who's got the veto. Since there's a Democrat in the White House, the Dems love it and the Reps hate it. But if a Republican wins in 1990, the Republicans will suddenly fall in love with the Line-Item Veto and the Democrats will learn to loathe it. It's a checks & balances issue, not a party issue. The same thing goes for the "fast track", which will basically give whoever is in the White House the power to authorize all sorts of crappy NAFTA clones to keep big business happy without all that bothersome discussion of such legislation's repercussions. The Republicans are whining about it now, but if it gets put in place they'll use it like crazy next time there's a Rep in the White House. The flip side applies to the Democrats. Both are basically powers that bring more muscle to the executive branch, which grew in power under Reagan and Bush and is now just somewhat short of dictatorship status. The only difference is that in America we'll get a different dictator every four or eight years, and we'll get to pretend we can vote to decide which dictator we want. 97Oct09 16:06 from Curly Surmudgeon @ ECBBS The jury is still out on the Line-Item-Veto. Just because Slick Willie used it doesn't mean that his veto will stand. The previous Supreme Court decision only delayed the day of reckoning, they declined the issue until the LIV was actually used. The Line Item Veto is unconstitutional. Whether or not the Supremes have the cajones to overrule it is another story. 97Oct09 18:52 from Jetrock @ ECBBS I've been impressed by the Supreme Court often enough when it comes to separation of powers. 97Oct09 20:24 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS But you still have to give 'credit'; (well maybe you don't HAVE to, but I do); for passing the LIV with Clinton in power. (I admit I would not have if I was in Congress). You can damn will bet the Democrats would not have with a Republican president in power. 97Oct10 01:35 from hank @ ECBBS Well, the supreme court DID overrule the CDA... But not without the help of millions on the internet petitioning against it. 97Oct10 1:37 pm from Kitty Cosmos @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA If you want to know the difference between the President breaking the law and some Methodist minister or guy on the street breaking the law, it is the fact that it is the President's *job* to *enforce* the law... whether or not he agrees with it. I think it was Eisenhower who pointed that out, and it's true. Congress makes the laws, the Supreme Court decides whether they are legal, and the President is *supposed* to enforce them. Why do you think people get so hot when they hear about a crooked cop? BTW... It was Thomas Jefferson who said, " Nothing is politically right which is morally wrong." 97Oct10 1:40 pm from Kitty Cosmos @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA Oh, did anybody hear any more about Rush's visit here... beyond the two minutes that the news gave him? After all, this *is* the EIB room! We shouldn't let him sneak by without mention. 97Oct10 07:20 from Freddy @ ECBBS JoePhoto, they didn't pass it (the democrats). It was up for vote when they had the majority and was shot down. I don't think we need that, but aparently we do. The line item veto is usefull with the crappy way these politicians are making these bills. A bill should have one thing in it. It you want to raise money for HIV research, then that bill should only have that information in it. Why have anything about building new sidewalks in Brooklin in there too? That's just plain crap. 97Oct10 11:12 from sinner @ ECBBS well, riders that have something to do with the primary bill would be appropriate. but, i'll agree...riders that have no connection shouldn't be there. 97Oct10 13:18 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS sinner; what do you think of the current REPUBLICAN proposal that union MEMBERS have to approve where their money is spent on political parties/candidates ??? 99% of it used to go to Democrats !!! 97Oct10 13:29 from sinner @ ECBBS i think it's silly. i'm not surprised that the republicans want their cut. but, considering that the republican party is anti-union it wouldn't be in the unions (or union members) best interest for the union leadership to give money to them. 97Oct10 13:36 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS But the proposal is that they also have to "approve" giving it to Democrats also.... (you know the other option is not to 'waste' it at all and make a larger RETIREMENT package with the money -- but that would be better for the union MEMBERS and not the union MANAGEMENT, who likes playing with the members money) 97Oct10 13:43 from Curly Surmudgeon @ ECBBS It is silly Joe, theoretically the union members already vote by electing the Union management who determine where the $$$ goes. 97Oct10 14:04 from sinner @ ECBBS exactly. and, the union is their to work for it's memberships best interests. and, Joe, don't tell me that the republicans are pulling this idea out of caring for union members. they just want the cash. well, the NRA gives the repubs cash nearly exclusively. are they gonna fight that and make a bill that "evens it out" and attempts to get more of that NRA money to the democrats. i don't think so. 97Oct10 14:09 from sinner @ ECBBS also, i hardly consider monetary support for candidates that are favorable to unionism is a waste of money by an entity thats goal is protection of unionism and union membership. it's called politics. the individual union members can vote or give money directly to whoever they wish, but once those union dues are paid they are used by the union to do it's job and complete it's obligations. they have a say on those funds at election time for union mangagement. it's not the governments job to interfer in non-governmental body politics. 97Oct10 16:55 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS Russias voting system is more fair than most unions. And yes, NRA gives most of its money to Republicans; I doubt if the total of their contribution is 1/1000 of what the unions contribute, (pay off), democrats..... (make that 1/100,000 or maybe even 1/1,000,000) 97Oct10 17:25 from sinner @ ECBBS actually, the NRA is one of the most powerful lobbies in the country. the lobby with cash AND promises of votes. unions have less of an ability to deliver votes. how you can say that unions are innately undemocratic is astounding. there are MANY different unions...there is no centralized "union". that resent AFL/CIO action about the "tampered" election shows that they DO have safegaurds, not that they don't. you see, it was found out and addressed. your continued biased and less than thought out rants on the subject are why i find it less than worthwhile to debate it with you. you hate and disdain (which you garner from being a boss and not a worker) that which you find personally disadvantagious. you see your opinion on the subject is based on your self interest, not logic or fact. don't pull me back into union debate unless you can free yourself of your lack of understanding of why they exist in the first place...and what their goals are. you think and call union workers "elites"...that is the stupidest line of crap that anyone could utter. the "elites" are the people in power, and sorry bubba but the unions are anything but in power. the brainwashing that you and the majority of people have (and have embraced) is playing into the hands of the MAN (the elite). you are a willing lacky of the man. enjoy what he gives you, for standing uop to him is certainly not in your mindset. you get what you fight for. and you ain't fighting. don't blame unions for your lack of balls. 97Oct10 21:09 from Jetrock @ ECBBS The proposed measure that Joe is talking about is nothing more than an attempt by big business to cut unions' political power to shreds. I wonder if they would be so approving of a similar measure that would require stockholder approval before a corporation could make political donations? I mean, fair's fair, right? Or do you only consider it "fair" when your side wins? Hell, I wish someone could convince the NRA and other pro-gun organizations to send more money to Libertarians and other candidates that are serious about pro-gun politics: admittedly, I'm happy that Wilson vetoed SB 500, but the Republican track record for being pro-gun is, well, spotty... who remembers how many anti-gun bills George Bush rubberstamped? (Of course, the NRA responded to this betrayal by not backing Bush in the 1992 election, and Bush counterattacked by ending his NRA membership in the foofaraw following the OK City bombing) 97Oct11 10:48 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS I like RUSH --- RUSH is RIGHT !!! (now let the flames begin) 97Oct11 11:18 from Curly Surmudgeon @ ECBBS Welcome Kitty, nice to have new blood around. On Earls Castle this is the Politics room and appreciation of Rush Limbaugh is spotty. Some of us dislike him, some detest him but a few are ardent, blind followers. Take your pick... 97Oct11 11:37 from Freddy @ ECBBS That sounded like an unbiased entry. 97Oct11 11:52 from hank @ ECBBS I think, therefore I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh. 97Oct11 13:21 from Jetrock @ ECBBS RUSH is GROTESQUELY INCORRECT! I prefer to avoid Excrement in Broadcasting like Lush Rimjob. 97Oct11 14:42 from sinner @ ECBBS Rush is good as entertainment....bad as information. he's a big fat idiot. he should wear a triple extra large clown suit and red nose, so he would be taken as seriously as he should be. 97Oct11 15:18 from Jetrock @ ECBBS I don't even enjoy Rush as entertainment. I prefer entertainment that makes me think. 97Oct11 17:29 from sinner @ ECBBS oh, and Jets, i don't buy your "entertainment that makes me think" thing is an absolute (but then, you did say prefer...hee he). you like stupid and dumb crap like Beaver and Buttcoat, and Ren & Stimpy, as much as the next guy. maybe Rush needs a buddy with him to go "huh huh huh". :-P i DO understand what you mean, though. thing is, i'll never give Rush enough cred to state that he's "dangerous"...it's the stupidity of his fans that think he's a political and social superstar that are apt to be dangerous. BUT, Rush actually is good as a mental exercise. an exercise in finding the hole in logic and the lies that he burys in the few common knowledge facts. plus, it's good to know the enemy (AND their ignorance). if Hitler were on T.V. i'd watch him. hey, i'm an atheist...but i read the Bible (or, Bibles). funny stuff, and quite entertaining. 97Oct11 20:04 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS I said Flames, these look like BONFIRES ... :) 97Oct11 20:36 from sinner @ ECBBS hee he. 97Oct11 20:37 from sinner @ ECBBS o.k. here, Joe, Clinton...man or Superman? Actually, who do you think would be a good (and honest) candidate for pres. this coming election from the republican ranks? i MIGHT very well agree (if i were to be the type to vote for a republicrat that is). Who? 97Oct11 21:27 from Jetrock @ ECBBS sinner: actually, "Beavis & Butthead" is often very pointed satire, under the initial level of crudity. People also considered Ambrose Bierce and Samuel Clemens to be "crude stupidity", and Jonathan Swift was considered downright offensive. Satire's only good when it hurts... hm. personally, as an anarchist, I don't think ANYONE should be President (or senator or congressman or governor or mayor, etcetera). To demonize a corrupt official simply justifies the existence of the office--with the unspoken assumption that a "Good" king wouldn't do such awful things. If the standards of the Nuremberg Trials were applied, *every* U.S. president of the postwar era would have been taken out and shot for their crimes. I don't see much point in wasting energy trying to decide which worthless bastard of the bunch was the most worthless. 97Oct11 22:28 from sinner @ ECBBS it was a question for Joe, BUT you make an eloquent statement for the a system that will never exist...but garners much praise from me so i give you 4 1/2 stars out of 5. :) 97Oct11 22:31 from sinner @ ECBBS i tend to believe that the system in place CAN be improved and with time be far better. if a "revolution" WITH or WITHOUT leaders were to occur...human nature and greed and power-hunger would re-install same. most probably to a worse condition. i happen to think that the contitution and bill of rights are hella good, near perfect documents that SHOULD get to the point of being axiomatic. it's human nature that is the problem. those words are very good and true. 97Oct11 22:37 from sinner @ ECBBS as per B&B...like i said, get Rush a partner and you got a virtual doppleganger of right wing idiocy. Rush IS funny...as funny as gomer pyle saying "citizens areest! citizens arrest!" to Clinton. it's a hoot. 97Oct12 00:08 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS sinner; I am NOT sure about his 'other' politics; but am intrigued by Forbes or Kemp.... both seem to want to LOWER TAXES.... (and I hope Govt. with it). 97Oct12 00:51 from sinner @ ECBBS well, considering MY name is Kemp...that doesn't have too bad a ring to it. hee he. Forbes is a freak, though. I, actually, liked alot of Doles stands...not enough to vote for him, of course (especially considering that it would give the repubs control of all branches of government...and that's BAAAAD). i did like Dole as a human. 97Oct12 00:56 from sinner @ ECBBS i respect your stance on less government...if it is real (considering that you want the MAN to invade union funds, i don't really buy it though). if you want LESS government...why aren't you with the Libertarians? thing is, you'd have to give up a few of your republican plots...hee . but, hey, i'm a Libertarian and still support unions (not in an absolute "as is" manner really) and that is pretty much against L.P. hardline. but, political platforms are debated "in party"..and i'm willing on that level. but, i know, you think it's a waste of a vote...well, ain't THAT the problem? other parties HAVE existed. look how many crazy f*CKERS voted for Perot. political change CAN happen. it just takes people to want to change. voting democrat OR republican means the status quo. NO change. 97Oct12 10:30 am Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA I'm not much on politics as you guys, but I think Rush is a not so funny joke. I feel that his Liberal mush is going above and beyond the call. 97Oct12 12:48 pm from Kitty Cosmos @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA Sinner, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it is human nature which has made the system so corrupt. After all, all these guys are out for is what's best for themselves... no matter *how* they dress it up! 97Oct12 12:55 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS NO CHANGE ??? That is still where we disagree..... I have given countless examples of 'changes' the Republicans either have already made or trying to make... !!! We indeed saw NO CHANGE, (at least for the better), for the 40 YEARS the Democrats controlled congress. It may not be enough to 'satisfy' many conseratives, but there HAS been a 'start'. And except for their apparent LACK of nation defense strategy, I do approve of most of the Liberterian Platform. And I would love to vote for them, IF it were not for the practical fact that you are ACTUALLY voting for the exact OPPOSITE ideology if they take votes away from the other 'conservative' candidate. EXAMPLE; say you have 11 voters; 5 of them are CommieRedBleedingHeartLiberals and 6 of them are GreatAmericanPatrioticConservatives; So the vote would be 6 to 5 for the GAPC... but a Perot or Liberterian type pops on the scene and 1 of those GAPC decides to vote for him... the result now is that the CRBHL wins. 97Oct12 16:09 from sinner @ ECBBS nah, you just like the status quo...the Republicrats. to say the the Libertarians take Republican voters is silly. i've never voted republican in my life. i used to be a democrat, as was my wife. you are, again, all wet. 97Oct12 16:47 from Damage Inc. @ ECBBS I hear some of the LP candidates are jumping party lines over to the Republicans.. just so that they actually have a chance to get elected. Especially like that one guy.. I forget his name, but he's a Republican now and will run against Lungren. It's kind of pathetic that other parties just don't have the money to compete against the two-party politics machine. Kinda lame when the other parties can bash the hell out of you publically, and you can't scrape together the cash to send out flyers or information to defend yourself. Many times, when I didn't have a clear idea of who I wanted to vote for, felt compelled to vote for one of the little parties.. if for no other reason to give them some more voter market share. The Republican/Democrat dichotomy just sucks.. both parties are full of bloated political swine of the worst sort. 97Oct12 17:56 from Freddy @ ECBBS A comment on Rush Limbaugh vs Christine Craft (fired twice from TV for being too ugly and at least once from the radio for just being an ass). Rush Limbaugh will let anyone with oposing views to call in and say their case (without interupting them). Then he will just explain how wrong or right they are. Christine Craft used to hand up on any caller that had an opposing view...the funny thing was they all did. No one ever called in to let her know what a good job she was doing. Heh. I used to listen to both of those back during my construction years. It was cool to see both sides of the ropes. I didn't really like either when I first started listening to them. Then I realized after a couple of weeks that Rush was actually joking around and having fun with what he was doing, and was very eloquent and very informed. He'd state something as a prediction and within a few weeks it'd happen (politically of course). Christine would basically get into a shouting match with anyone that called in with an oposing view. Then she'd cut them off in mid sentence and hang up on them and not respond. I just think if you are going to be in a forum like that, you better learn to deal with it. Rush has and is making millions off of it. Christine got fired twice (*that I know of*) from TV and once from radio and is now working for a free paper (News&Review)...so, we can see how far she has come. Christine started in Kansas too, while Rush started here, in Sac. 97Oct12 18:35 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS Freddy, that is the most correct, intelligent, well stated post you have ever made. (got to admit I don't understand most of your posts..... :) And yes, you are correct about having to listen to Rush for awhile to realize he is often joking and 'over'emphasizing something to make a point. His biggest problem was that EVERY time he went on a new station; there were always protest and demands to 'remove' him for the first 6-weeks.... then overnight, all the SAME protesters would immediately reverse position and praise his glory. BUT; he admits that he did indeed NOT SURVIVE the first 6-weeks at some stations; that immediately over-reacted to the complains and cancelled his show. He had to 'warn' every station he got on to expect it,,,, some worked with it and some did not. And indeed, the best thing you can say about him is how he treats those that disagree with him.... totally different from almost any other talk-show host... (particually Christene Craft). BUT, Ray Talifero on KGO is the absolute worse I have ever heard for the way he treats those who don't agree -- and he is Black and the worse RACIST I have ever heard. I heard him tell a B*TCH she go to F**King HELL cause this was HIS G*D D**M SHOW and he would F**King well run it the way he F**King well WANTED TO !!! (that is an exact true quote; I wanted to call the FCC and see if they would investigate it cause I think using those words on the air is grounds for removal) 97Oct12 23:02 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS And, as we have discussed before; I disagree with the Republican stance on drugs, (and abortion). As for Rush; I am sure you do not believe him when he says that all 'opposition' callers are usually put through in front of other callers. 97Oct13 00:08 from Jetrock @ ECBBS Well, no, I don't. 97Oct13 00:37 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS It seems to me that he enjoys talking to 'disagreers' more than agreers (sp). He just seems to talk LONGER to them than those that agree. 97Oct13 01:32 from Freddy @ ECBBS JOe, he obviously hasn't listened to Rush for more then a week. Because when I listened to him, and still on occassion, I hear disenting views. I remember he put on a guy one time that was so mad about Rush and his stance on pro-building instead of protecting an owl (yes, the spotted). This guy was trying to argue his point and getting madder and madder. I would have just asked the guy if he lives in any type of permenant dwelling, and then told him to go away, but Rush had him livid my the end of the show. Basically the guy was trying to say that animals had more rights to live then humans. He said they were here first, and he would rather have no humans then the animals die. Rush let him spew the entire drival for over 20 mins. That's typical too. Most of the Liberals that call though, usually are not such idiots as that caller. Basically, the rest listen to him and don't call him a liar or any other names, they just explain they have different views. Basically, they think he's a brilliant orater and a smart man and they just don't agree. 97Oct13 1:52 pm from Kitty Cosmos @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA I enjoy listening to Rush for the same reason I enjoy John Madden do football commentary... they both over-do it: Rush, to emphasize what he says and John, who knows *why*... and it's entertaining. 97Oct13 07:12 from Freddy @ ECBBS Liberal mush? Heh. Maybe Conservative mush is what you meant. 97Oct13 10:20 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS Terry, I will not argue that he gets 20,000 calls per show... I am sure that may be true and 'few' get on. BUT, there is NO QUESTION that he allows each caller MORE TIME that ANY other talk show host I have ever heard, (and I have listened to talk radio since 1966). Many are like Larry King that will cut you off if you 'stutter' one word and 'delay' the show. I am possitive that his show actually has fewer callers on line than any other show.... that may be bad, but it is simply a trade off of giving each caller a respectable amount of time or trying to break your record for number of callers that get on line. There of course has been exceptions but I do enjoy the 'mix' of callers Rush's screeners let through. (but actually, I usually ONLY try to listen to his initial 15-20min intro at the start of each hour.... it is there that you hear NEWS that you will NOT HEAR anywhere else) 97Oct13 11:51 from J.J.Dillon @ ECBBS Al Franken debunked that myth that is Lush better than any random caller ever could. I highly recommend his book. :) 97Oct13 12:34 from Curly Surmudgeon @ ECBBS JoePhoto, please open your closed mind. Voting for a third-party candidate is a vote against _both_ the Republicans and Democrats. Stop insisting that voting your conscience is a wasted vote, you are wrong. Honesty is _never_ a waste. Prostituting yourself to thwart a hated politician by voting for his opponent regardless of your own favorite is prostitution. And it doesn't even feel good. 97Oct13 13:08 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS Curly, you are absolutely correct ONLY if the voters for a particular third party is completely split from where they 'would' otherwise have voted. While surely there is 'some' democrats, (sinner claims to be one); that voted for Perot orLiberterian.... I propose that at least 90% would otherwise have been Republicans. (Same as I propose that most Ralph Naderites and Green Party voters would be Democrats). Since the outcome is only the largest percentage of ALL voters, we have Clinton as president with only 43% of the vote. (But, remember that I actually voted for Perot, and LIBERTERIAN in the last election -- so I DID vote my "conscience", but I also admit that it was only AFTER it was obvious Bush & Dole had lost already) 97Oct13 13:41 from sinner @ ECBBS Joe: i said i WAS a democrat. this was about 18 years ago. i became a registered Libertarian in college. 97Oct13 13:51 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS OK, so assume for a moment the Liberterians didn't exist at all -- and there was ONLY Reps/Dems. Can't you agree that at least SOMETHING is being attempted right now by the Reps. You NEVER saw any Democrat fighting for a Balanced Budget, (even letting the Govt. be shut down in the attempt), reductions in the rate of spending increases, Line-Item-Veto, etc, etc, etc,.... Now if you say you are a Liberterian now, I simply cannot believe or accept if you say you would still vote Democratic -- if you HAD to vote and there was only the two parties !!! 97Oct13 14:29 from sinner @ ECBBS IF that were the case, I'd vote for who was best. Neither Demcrats or Republicans are bastions of virtue. Democrats have many issues that I disagree with, but those points are minor compared to the Republican Guard and their fascist agendas. So, by and large, I'd probably vote Democrat. I'd rather pay a little more in taxes than pay in freedom. BUT, if your example of our country only allowing those two parties existed...I'd probably be blowing up alot of it. You see, that wouldn't be a very free country. It's not that free now, but that is because we are controlled by the Republicrats. The one thing that they DO agree on, wholeheartedly, is that they BOTH rule this dust-speck. 97Oct13 14:58 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS I pretty much agree with all your last post. I also disagree with 'some' of the Rep agenda, (abortion and drugs).... BUT, I also know that abortion does not 'directly' affect me... whereas INFLATION and TAXES do. As far as drugs, the Dems are pretty much against legalization also so that is pretty much a wash. FREEDOM ??? I believe the Democrats are more a threath to that than the Reps... even though it may not seem like it. (Remember it was always the Dems that 'over-react' to situations, usually with half-assed solutions that won't work anyway) But you still have not stated ANYTHING the Dems have done which can be catagoized as 'good'.... At least the Reps did have the Contract-WITH-America.... which articles of that do you specifically disagree with ???? (and is that any you do agree with ??? ) Simply put, the Liberterians are for a 'reduction' in Govt.... surely you are not going to tell me the Dems are also.... so I do find it strange that you say wyou would make that 'choice' if you had to. 97Oct13 15:20 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS Now Newt is proud of the fact that they 'kept their word' and indeed passed most of the Contract.... and has said "you ain't seen nothing yet"; as they are preparing another 'list'. I don't want to pass judgement until I see this next 'list' but I do respect the fact that they at least kept their word and did exactely what they said they would do...in fact more than they said they would do since the 'contract' only said that they would "discuss" the list of items... they indeed did "discuss" and PASSED them. (Remember that all the Dems have done is CASH in their free 'stamps'; write hot checks, sell 'books', delay the S&L investigations after Keating gave Cranston over $2MIL, and now we find that Dasher has charged $5000 each to take 'friends' up to the top of Mt.Rushmore -- a FEDERAL National Park, using FEDERAL Park Employees to escort them --- seems I have heard a rumor it is illegal to solicit funds on FEDERAL property) You brought up FREEDOM before, do you consider Gun Laws a restriction of Freedom ??? Please notice that it is the Dems that always come up with them... even the Brady Bill was Democratic, even though it carries a Rep name with it. Now I know the Reps promissed to revoke some of the assault rifle bill, but please remember it is sorta like the Balanced Budget... from a practical standpoint the LIBERAL PRESS will make it look like the Reps are in favor of killing children and old people if they 'fight' to revoke it.... BUT, you can BET that it would not have passed in the first place if it was their choice. (Notice that Wilson did veto the CA bill -- any Dem gov. would have actually 'supported' it.... remember Prop13 and the vicious fight Jerry Brown waged against it ??? ) 97Oct13 15:39 from sinner @ ECBBS there is no such thing as a "liberal press". 97Oct13 15:40 from sinner @ ECBBS it would be a balancing act, to be sure, if you "only two paties existed" thing did exist. but, the republican stands on (and these are just off the top of my head, so the organization may suck)..the repubs: want to force feed kids in public schools THEIR religion (prayer in schools), anti-choice (as you stated), the self-serving interpretation of constitutionality (example, their support of Ollie Norths "little personal war"), their anti-free speech stances, their anti-gay and women's rights stances. And, their near absolute pro-military/industrial complex mindset. the democrats? yep, bigger government...with subsequent tax increases, and their gun control stances. basically, i see both parties as pretty much the same..in that both "care" about a certain group. the republicans care about christians, big business, and their own red-neck selves. the democrats care about a much larger base, their problem is that they show this "caring" by attempting to be everyones parents. i'm not saying EITHER is better or worse. just that i'm not a christian that believes that women and gays are inferior, and that big business is the most worthy of our respect and support. oh yeah, i almost forgot about the repubs lack of concern for the environment. 97Oct13 16:27 from Curly Surmudgeon @ ECBBS I don't want to deal in "if's." As to the Republicans being less of a threat to liberty than Democrates, that, too, is a ridiculous comparison. Our liberties have never been more at risk, We have a Democrat president and Republican clowngress. Under the last administration the converse was true and the "War on Some Drugs" was launched. Joe, I know you are well-intentioned but get off the "US" or "THEM" kick. The lesser of two evils is not a choice. We must vote for the absolute best candidate, not one who eats our liberties in one venue while allowing a few in another. Newt Gringich voted _for_ The Airlines Security Act of 1996. Newt Gringich voted to violate the 4th Amendment. Newt Gringich is a traitor and should be shot at dawn. 97Oct13 16:39 from sinner @ ECBBS Joe: i almost forgot..if this imaginary "only two party" thing existed. i'd ONLY vote for people that advocated abolishing it, and allowing third parties with equal abilities to compete. be it repub or demo. THAT would be my absolute test. 97Oct13 17:00 from sinner @ ECBBS Curly: there's nothing wrong with hypotheticals. they can help convey or clarify SOME pints. on this one Joe is pretty much trying to tell me that i'm a republican in Libertarian's clothing. so, i'll take his hypothetical...and raise him a retort. :-P 97Oct13 17:22 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS But does anyone disagree with a requirement that a 50%+ vote be required for election ??? Are we happy with Clinton being president with 43% of the vote ??? (Curly's bias just showed in his last post when he acknowledged Clinton as the President, but refered to the Reps as CLOWNgress --- why don't you try at least being fair and use President CLOWNton ??? ) I have already said that I WELCOME all the Third/Forth etc Parties they want; as long as the voting procedure prevents a minority election. 97Oct13 17:48 from Jetrock @ ECBBS Joe, you're grasping at straws here, and claiming that anything that doesn't meet your fascist views is "unfair" somehow. Your "what ifs" are pointless: it's stupid and meaningless to ask people what they'd think if there were only two parties, because that's not the case--you're dealing with your black & white hallucinations, not with reality. Let's see. I'm 28, been a registered voter for 10 years. In that time, I was registered as a Democrat for three months, and as a Libertarian for two. I registered Democrat only so I could vote for Jerry Brown in a primary, then changed back to my traditional party, "decline to state". I voted for Clinton in '92, since at the time I was under the mistaken impression that he was a liberal. His actions and words since then have betrayed that status--and the pejorative "liberal" that Republicans and Democrats alike use has absolutely nothing to do with actual liberalism. Though I should point out that Clinton started cutting the budget deficit during his first year in office, and continued doing so throughout his first term, something that *never* happened in 12 years of Reagan/Bush. Joe's solution for inconvenient facts such as these is as simple as it is elegant: he simply holds his hands over his ears, shuts his eyes, and screams "LIES! LIES! IT'S ALL LIES!" whenever anyone points out the hypocrisy of his idols. The bottom line is that it is GOVERNMENT that is a threat to freedom. Arguing that your pack of morons would somehow do a better job is pointless. NOBODY FOR PRESIDENT! 97Oct13 18:03 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS "LIES! LIES! IT'S ALL LIES!" Yep; the ONLY reason Clinton was able to show a reduced budget is due to: 1. Raising Taxes, 2. Improved Economy due to BUSH's policies that the press refused to acknowledged until the DAY after the election.... then 'magically' the economy was not as 'bad' as we thought; 3. Clinton refinanced tresury notes with 'short' term, lower interest rates. A very RISKY tactic that ONLY worked cause his economic growth was so SSLLLOOOOOOOWWW, interest rates have been able to remain low. And Reagan and Bush DID have reduced deficits.... Reagan only had a giant peak because he had to rebuild the military after Carter decimated it. 97Oct13 20:52 from Jetrock @ ECBBS Joe: Um, no, Reagan pushed the deficit to its limit--at NO POINT between 1980 and 1992 did the deficit get smaller--only larger. And that was despite the two largest tax increases in history (in 1980 and 1984) to boost income. Whereas Clinton's tax increase only affected the richest (he pushed the top rate from 34% to 38%, while his SecTreas Lloyd Bentsen (aka "Loophole Lloyd") did his best to leave more big loopholes for the rich, which erased most of the tax increase's benefit--and STILL managed the first deficit reduction after 12 years of steady increase! And economic growth since 1992 has been, on the average, HIGHER than it ever was during the 1980's. The reason why it hasn't seemed that way (except during the short media snow job this summer about how great the economy supposedly is) is because most of the economic benefit has gone to the very rich. Admittedly, Clinton's budget reductions were like taking an eyedropper to a forest fire, little more than a token attempt--but it was more than Reagan or Bush did in twelve years. 97Oct14 8:18 am HappyB-DayPersefoni from Ghek the Kaldane @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA Of course it took a Republican congress to get deficit reduction...so it would have happened under "whoever" was in the white house...I don't worry too much acout the deficit, but I hate to waste money...(something the Demo's seem to be the best at...).....when I vote, I vote the best candidate and fall back on party line when I lack info or don't have much of a choice. I also veto anything that says "bond" in it...always have... 97Oct14 8:20 am HappyB-DayPersefoni from Ghek the Kaldane @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA (I think of Rush as one of the great men of our time. I will admit that he is not quite perfect...he smokes...) 97Oct14 9:11 am Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA Thanks for the correction, Freddy. I did mean Conservative mush. the difference between Lush Windbag and John Madden is that Madden speaks from experience. And doesn't talk like he's on Prozac. 97Oct14 10:16 from Jetrock @ ECBBS hokay. Football bores me to tears, so I can't relate to that analogy.. 97Oct14 11:07 from Curly Surmudgeon @ ECBBS I believe that the largest budget/deficit increase ever was Clinton in 1994. Prior to that was Bush's in 1991 and Reagan's in 1984. I'm guessing at the dates. My point isn't that one is worse than the other but that they _all_ are evil, corrupt statists. Voting for any one of them is sufficient reason for hari-kari... 97Oct14 11:38 from sinner @ ECBBS i believe the AMOUNT of increase of deficit was greatest under Reagan. but, i agree, Curly, neither the democrats or republicans are better. they actually need and support each other. they effectively lock out any third party people that do get elected from doing their jobs, by placing them in nothing-burger committees and just plain "not playing with them". that's why they are just the republicrats. 97Oct14 21:14 from Freddy @ ECBBS How can you blame a deficit on the president? You think he's writing checks for whatever he wants? The budget is made up by congress...which has been run by the democrats for many many years, until the last few years. The president can accept or deny any budget they put up to him, but it MUST pass by a deadline (unlike California, which can go for as long as they feel like) no matter what. Basically, the democratic congress raised all the welfare expenses during that time and in so doing it's at an all time high. There is no way of lowering that budget without decreasing popular support majorly. Basically, if Clinton tried to lower the budget (he wouldn't) he would become so unpopular that he'd be ousted immediately. Same goes for Congress. They'd like to lower the expense we have, but they can't without immediately loosing their positions. It's a major case study. Always happens. BUT!!!! they could stop increasing it!!!! This is our problem. We are spending too much already, yet we increase all those ammounts every year. No matter what. We can be in a depression, we will still increase the spending (which, believe it or not is what you need to do to get the economy moving again). Point is we need to stop increasing spending. Hell, stop it if nothing else. Put a freeze on spending for the next 10 years, and keep to the budget instead of going over every single year. That's what kills us. Then there idiots like state/fed workers who are spending every penny of their budget even if they don't need because they are under this idea that they need to. 97Oct14 21:38 from sinner @ ECBBS because it was Reagan's PLAN that was approved. it was his game. it was his "personality" (which i could NEVER figure out how it actually WORKED) that was how HE implemented the friggin thing. that's why i say it was Reagan that had (made) the biggest deficit. HE planned it, HE worked it, HE got his way. The public BOUGHT IT! if Bush or Clinton had high deficits under their administration is FAR different than selling the people the idea of doing so, as Reagan did. having an ex-head of the CIA as vice-president...and disco, that are the other contributing factors. 97Oct14 21:46 from sinner @ ECBBS stupid people...followers of the two-party system...and bad fashion sense that are the downfalls of this "democracy".. 97Oct14 23:54 from Freddy @ ECBBS Ah, no he didn't. All he did was sign a budget that a Democratic congress put together. He had no say, and he DIDN'T have a line item veto to cancel out crap that was added to budget bills where you could add a line of 1 million to your residential block in a soup kitchen bill. Point is it aint "paties" that do the evil, you moron. It's the people that do the evil. Can't you see that? Or too blind from staring at that monitor all day on your percodan? 97Oct15 01:19 from sinner @ ECBBS it was HIS budget plan, not theirs. 97Oct15 03:46 from Jetrock @ ECBBS Ghek: That's fine. I think of Rush as one of the great blowhards of the 20th Century. Freddy: Um, actually, no, the President creates the overall budget. There are mandated expenses, but the president has an awful lot of leeway in creating the budget. Despite popular illusions to the contrary, many social programs had their funding cut drastically during the Reagan/Bush administrations, such as HUD, to free up budget money for crap like B-2 bombers that can't fly in the rain and faked SDI research. There are advantages to running up the deficit, if you happen to be a lackey of the rich. For starters, the banks make a tidy short-term sum lending the money to the government (and they can claim the amount lent as future income, plus interest, and borrow against it). Second, over the longer term, one can create a sense of alarm over budget deficits so intense that people become willing to further slash social-welfare programs. If you spin things properly, you won't even need to cut into all the wealthfare programs that toss hundreds of billions of dollars into the pockets of giant corporations. When the government is massively in debt, it becomes beholden to its financial backers. 97Oct15 07:15 from Freddy @ ECBBS Whaat? Where the hell did you take govenment? USSR? You freak! Take a government class. The congress sits down for months ironing out a budget which they hand over to the pres, who either signs it or explains the changes he's like to see. Though, the two groups only have a little while to bicker over the law, because they must pass a budget by a deadline (which escapes me at the moment). You idiot. Raising the deficit isn't good for the economy...it causes inflation. If you think rich people want to spend more money on what they buy, your brain is more fried then you care to admit. Fact is that when you deficit spend you cause inflation, but you also add capital to the economy, which stirs growth. So, in a depressionary state you want to spend more money then what we have. In a growth period you want to do the opposite. You either want a balanced budget or actually spend a little less, to curb inflation from growing too high. This keeps the costs down on goods and services and allows the economy to deal well. And as far as welfare "slashing". It has never happened. The only "slashing' that has happened is where they try to increase the budget by 20% for the year and only end up increasing it 10%, still over 5% over inflation, but that is a budget "slashing." That's what these damn reductions in spending that a lot of idiots are harping on. In my book it's an increase. If I say I'm going to go buy some clothes and spend $1,000. Then change my mind because that sounds like too much money to spend. Now I cut spending by $200, and spend $800. (almost makes sense) So, I cut $200 in my budget right? Not if I spent $500 last year, and my learly budget is $500. Then I have just INCREASED spending by $300. A little bit of a difference, but no one seems to notice or care about it. Also, any "cutting" of welfare programs is hit by such bad publicity that any politician that would try to do it would immediately be ousted. It's never happened in mine or your lifetime. Never will. BUT!!!!....read on disbelievers...it can stop INCREASING every year. This in all areas of the budget, and no OVERSPENDING (which happens every year in deficit spending). Our Nation Debt is how much money we have that we owe (I feel this needs some explaining to all the Jetrocks and sinners out there). Our Deficit is how much money we spend past what we make every year. Our Debt increases every year because of interest if nothing else, but, lucky us, we get to have it increased by having deficit spending increaing every year too. We need to quit spending more then we have (sometimes). 97Oct15 10:01 from Curly Surmudgeon @ ECBBS I agree with Ghek, anything that has "bond" in it should be automatically rejected. All bonds cost two to three times the quoted amount after interest is added over the life of the bond. We need to pay as we go, not live on debt. Same goes for government. Unless we are in a declared war or severe recession deficit spending should be outlawed. All it shows is a lack of willpower by our legislature and elected representatives. 97Oct15 12:57 from Turk @ ECBBS The president is under no legal obligation to submit a budget proposal to congress. It is a recent custom. That said, Reagan proposed his military pork, the democratic congress added social pork, and Reagan signed it. Truly a bi-partisan effort. Not much has changed except the names on the doors. 97Oct15 19:33 from Jetrock @ ECBBS Freddy: Hm. Let's take a look at the facts here, instead of the assumptions. The HUD budget in 1980 was $3.7 billion. By 1988, the HUD budget had been cut down to $573 million. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but at least according to my calculator, 573 million is a *smaller* number than 3.7 billion. And back to the "who's got the bigger deficit" ruler, Clinton's 1994 deficit (the one Curly claimed above as "the biggest in history" was $180 billion. Now, Reagan's budgets between 1983 and 1986 *ALL* had deficits larger than $180 billion, the largest being 1986, when the budget deficit was over $220 billion! One again, maybe my calculator is broken, but 220 billion seems to be a larger number than 180 billion. And deficit spending, properly managed, seems to have maintained a high growth rate without undue inflation. Consider, Freddy, that deficits started skyrocketing during the 1980's, which *ended* a period of high inflation in the late 1970's. But deficit spending is like a crank run: eventually you run out of speed and then you have to crash. We've been speedin' high for a while now, but the speed-bugs have set in and we've resorted to licking bags and cutting open straws in our desperation... I'll agree with Curly and Ghek as far as bond measures go. Especially when it's crap like the "safe, pure, clean water and profits for agribusiness act" propositions that land us $100 million extra in bond debt in return for corporate pork... 97Oct15 22:24 from Freddy @ ECBBS INflation didn't start till the 80's? Hmm. Strange. I must be older then you, becuase I remember pumping gas at 30 cents a gallon in the mid 70's and by the early 80's it was at a buck. That's 70 cents a gallon under Carter who was a democrat. Go figure. Gas hasn't raised at all since about 1984-6 where it was about $1-$1.40 and back down. Basically gas has been $1.40 since around 1984. Down and up, but still there. Yet, in 75-80 it went up nearly a buck under a democratic president. Very strange. Also, take an econ class. I aint going to explain again how deficit spending and inflation have a direct corolary. I took college econ last year and had the second highest grade, while 80% of the class failed, and I had a 98. Go figure. You probably know more about this, so go ahead, rant on. 97Oct15 22:30 from Freddy @ ECBBS Much like you know about my exgirlfriend. 97Oct16 00:00 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS I am going to repeat my diatribe about inflation being caused by excessive demands. Inflation is an increase in PRICES... prices are mostly determined by LAVB BOR costs. When labor cost increase faster than the COL... then prices on those products are going to increase faster than COL,,,, thus more inflation. (And considering that COL is mostly based on high labor products, it is a self-fueling statistic) Inflation occured due to the high labor 'demands' of the late 60's and 70's. Reagan stopped it cold when he stood up to the ATC's... and inflation has been more under control since. I have heard that deficits CAUSE inflation for years, and years... but I am not sure that deficits more accurately simply 'feed' the inflation since a lot of it goes to contracts that are VERY high LABOR intensive. (like $44/hr for Highway Construction, etc) 97Oct16 00:21 from sinner @ ECBBS why do hamburgers cost more (WAY more)? they surely haven't increased solely because of inflation....nor, unions. what up? 97Oct16 01:02 from JoePhoto @ ECBBS In some places, hamburgers have NOT increased more than inflation. Hamburgers in '66 were about .69 Inflation has increased 4x since then; I was at Willies last week and a complete equivalent Hamburger was $1.44. (CarlsJr, BK, MD, has burgers for .99 without the extras, but they also have burgers for about $1.50) Now I admit that there are burgers that cost up to $3.00 but they are LARGER than anything available in '66. And I also admit that some 'gormet' burgers are up to $4 or $5 but again, you cannot compare those since these type of burgers were not available then. So in summary, ACTUAL equivalent Hamburger prices have only increased about 2x... thus they have effectively decreased in price. 97Oct18 5:15 am Pretzel Boy from Ghek the Kaldane @ Bantoom _ Sac-CA ....(burgers lower in terms of constant dollars..)..... (Its kind of funny having Freddy misread Jetrocks messages....they are both in agreement on when high inflation ceased actually...) (I have no cursor) Inflation is an interesting beast....its described in textbooks as too much money chasing too few goods....hard to believe in this country that we ever had too few goods...a theory I read lately is that production methods are so efficent now, that the major part of the cost of a good is now shipping it.....which means that the locals should be able to compete with overseas firms in a great number of cases (or competing with ourselves as we often own the overseas firm as well)....so basically we have a stable economy....the excess money that should be causing inflation is going into the stock market as near as I can determine...still working on what happens next.... Lazer Tag [Warriors Gate] 100 messages - 5 new oto ew nter ngoto elp Lazer Tag] read ump ext

ause top 97Oct04 4:47 am from Asgard File "LAPH.txt" uploaded by Ghek the Kaldane: Desc: LAPH is Level-Adjusted Average-adjusted Points-per Hit. A statistice I created that simulates a player at any levels performance if he had played as a level one. It does seem to give a very good relative performance statistic and it clearly indicates missile use! Ghek 97Oct05 3:10 pm Cavalier Images from Petrouchka I will be there on Wednesday, but I request we move the time back to 5:30 or so, because I have a dart league there that starts at 8pm... 97Oct06 1:56 pm Bang!! You're dead! from Hunter I'll try, bu t I make no guar guarnties. 97Oct08 6:35 am I'm Ghek & URNOT from Ghek the Kaldane I will be there from 5:30 ...till 7:30 probably.....remember to get 2 for 1 coupons at Luckys at marconi and Fair Oaks......Hunter is grunting at us....Wishing everybody a high LAPH.... 97Oct14 8:22 am HappyB-DayPersefoni from Ghek the Kaldane General Game time will be 5:30 pm for Lazer Force.....its dart league night as well there on Wed and Petrock plays....I might start...so LF games will be earlier if you want to try us... 97Oct18 5:32 am Pretzel Boy from Ghek the Kaldane Hunter was a no-no show.....I played three games last week (The Waco Kid won 2 of them...) and 2 this week (equipment problems...one pack froze and the other quit locking on targets)....I am getting much better at taking out the people who try to missile me.....and also I can hit the dragon now...my overall awareness has grown....now to avoide letting people shoot me so much...it makes their scores bigger....just have to get used to the idea that their will be a new hotshot every week who chews everybody up as a level one....One on One I am in the top ten easily (IMHO)....but I get chewed up taking on 4 people in a 20 foot area with the dragon and 2 others sniping at me...but I cain't stand still and sit in a "safe" zone....I have to rove and destroy....see you all at 5:30... Sports Haven [Temple Gardens] 100 messages - 8 new oto ew nter ngoto elp Sports Haven> read ump ext

ause top 97Oct04 4:23 am Action Figure from Ghek the Kaldane Glad you didn't hit the wall this week.....(GB? I didn't know Great Britian had a team...over to you Ted...) 97Oct05 9:04 am Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader That's Green Bay! Not Great Britain. Yeah, contact with the wall is NOT fun. Especially coming out of two. The wind has a funny draft there and plays havoc with the aerodynamics and the setup of the car. You have to drift on the inside groove to get through and not kiss the concrete. Back to you, Chris. 97Oct05 3:11 pm Cavalier Images from Petrouchka Didn't get my picks out this week, and I'm not going to be modeming on a regular basis anymore... so, well, bye... heh 97Oct06 8:08 pm Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader Weell, that leaves me. No problem. I'll be leaving my picks and finals here. For now, sports fans, I'm Tomcat Leader. 97Oct08 6:37 am I'm Ghek & URNOT from Ghek the Kaldane Petrock finally realized that there were only 24 hours in a day..... 97Oct14 9:22 am Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader Well, sports fans, it's been two weeks since a post was left here. for that I appologize. the timing hasn't been too great lately. so here's an recap on weekend happenings. In football, the Dallas Cowboys lost to the Washington Redskins, giving the Skins sole possession of first place in the NFC East monday night. Terry Labonte won the Diehard 500 Sunday. Jerk gordon started a 20 car pile up on lap 140, taking out himself, Jeremy Mayfield, Dale Earnhardt, Dale Jarrett, Sterling Marlin, Dick Trickle, Mark Martin, Lake Speed, Jimmy Spencer, Rort Pressley, Morgan Sheppard, Ted Musgrave, ToddBodine, Darrell Waltrip, Micheal Waltrip, Rick Mast, Hut stricklin, Geoff bodine, and Ward burton. that's all for now. 97Oct16 1:48 am from Kitty Cosmos The 49ers stomped on the Rams Sunday afternoon, but the only part of the game I was able to watch was a goal-line stand in the second quarter, when the Rams held them off and *prevented* a score. (You see, I am trying to keep the anti-49er forces from lynching me!) Go Niners! 97Oct16 7:38 am Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader It will be the Marlins and Indians in the World Series. the Marlins Make the big dance after 5 years in existance, for Cleveland, it's their second trip in as many years. Last time, Atlanta beat the Indians in five for their first title in 47 years. Game one will start Monday in Florida. BTW Kitty, your Niners have to play Denver (Undefeated) in three weeks. Bwahahahahaha! Who dey! Who dey! Who dey think gonna beat dem Bengals! (Weak attempt at hoping for a win.) that's sports for now. with kitty Cosmos, I'm Tomcat Leader. 97Oct18 5:17 am Pretzel Boy from Ghek the Kaldane Tennis is in hiatis..... Band Names 31 messages - 2 new oto ew nter ngoto elp Band Names> read ump ext

ause top 97Oct04 4:24 am Action Figure from Ghek the Kaldane Kubix Ruby Drunke Lyone Temporale Ryfte 97Oct05 9:05 am Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader Lyon's Denn.... 97Oct08 6:40 am I'm Ghek & URNOT from Ghek the Kaldane Cugore Randz Llaime Xcuze Digitone Barrphly Temple of Beauty 24 messages - 3 new oto ew nter ngoto elp Temple of Beauty] read ump ext

ause top 97Sep18 4:53 am movin' N shakin' from Ghek the Kaldane film at 11:30, big stomace ache and uncontrolled ****ing 97Oct08 7:04 am from Asgard File "scotylap.jpg" uploaded by Ghek the Kaldane: Desc: Kitty Cosmos on Scotty's (James Doohan) lap at a con in Santa Rosa a few years ago...aka the "There be whales here" picture! 97Oct10 1:43 pm from Kitty Cosmos Hah! It's a good thing I've got a good sense of humor... but when you're famous you have to put up with the papparazzi 97Oct14 8:20 am HappyB-DayPersefoni from Ghek the Kaldane I didn't take that picture....I just published it..... Viewers Choice 9 messages - 3 new oto ew nter ngoto elp Viewers Choice> read ump ext

ause top 97Oct04 5:48 am Home of the TI99/4a from Ghek the Kaldane Heh....Buffy is back for another fine season....3 great shows so far....she has a ring of about 100 homepages....all linked...... Kitty and I went to see Picture Perfect on Thursday....I'll give it 3 out of 5 stars...funny movie. So when's Heinlein's Starship Troopers hitting the screens? The toys for the movie are already on the shelves at Toys R Us.... 97Oct05 9:06 am Pass Interference from Tomcat Leader tonight is the season premeire of DS9. 6:00, channel 40. 97Oct06 4:15 pm wheredidthetimego from The Eternal Yam I saw Picture Perfect with Silent...I thought it was kinda cheesy...maybe 2 stars... 97Oct08 6:45 am I'm Ghek & URNOT from Ghek the Kaldane hummmm.....heh...I have worked in an office....heh.... "Now I know how Gildens feels".....it is a movie for people over 30.....try it again in a decade... Kitty and I may go see MY Best Friends Wedding tonight....(Reminds me, I am going to be an usher at Lizard's wedding in Jan...) The Pipestone Lodge 16 messages - 9 new oto ew nter ngoto elp The Pipestone Lodge> read ump ext

ause top 97Jul02 10:15 pm Tickle THIS, Elmo from Petrouchka 24th Annual NorCal Band Festival Armijo HS, Fairfield April 26th, 1997 CONCERT AWARDS: 1st Place - JHS Class E: Dover MS (85.95) JHS Class D: South Pointe MS (90.60) HS Class C: Vanden (95.20) HS Class B: Benicia (95.35) HS Class A: Lincoln II (91.95) HS Class AA: Lincoln I (96.85) JHS SWEEPSTAKES: Sullivan (93.20) HS SWEEPSTAKES: Fairfield (97.85) PARADE AWARDS: Juniore High School 1st Place Awards: Rifle Team --- Sullivan (89.0) Majorette Solo --- Vallejo (84.0) Majorette Team --- Grange (77.0) Drill Team --- Springstowne (79.0) Identification Units --- Sullivan (76.0) Tall Flags --- Solano (86.0) Drum Major, Military --- Dover (86.0) Drum Major, Mace --- Wells (89.0) Percussion --- Franklin (92.0) Class E Bands --- Dover (88.75) Class D Bands --- Los Banos (87.75) Junior High School Sweepstakes Awards: Marching --- Sullivan (172.5) Showmanship --- Sullivan (289.0) Music --- Sullivan (463.0) PARADE GRAND --- SULLIVAN (92.35) OVERALL COMBINED GRAND --- SULLIVAN (185.55) High School 1st Place Awards: Majorette Solo --- Vanden (68.0) Majorette Team --- John Swett (80.0) Rifle Team --- Fairfield (91.0) Percussion --- Hogan (92.0) Identification Units --- Fairfield (92.0) Tall Flags --- Fairfield (92.0) Drum Major, Mace --- Lincoln (91.0) Drum Major, Military --- Vanden (91.0) Drum Major, Open --- Bear Creek (75.0) Class C Bands --- Whitney (87.9) Class B Bands --- Benicia (92.0) Class A Bands --- Lincoln (96.0) High School Sweepstakes Awards: Marching --- Fairfield (192.0) Showmanship --- Fairfield (295.5) Music --- Fairfield (483.0) PARADE GRAND --- Fairfield (96.85) OVERALL COMBINED GRAND --- Fairfield (194.70) 97Oct05 3:23 pm Cavalier Images from Petrouchka 27th Annual Cupertino Tournament of Bands October 4th, 1997 Parade 1st place winners: Drum Major, Open - Wilcox (88.0) Drum Major, Mace - Antioch (89.0) Drum Major, Military - Lynbrook (85.0) Percussion - Homestead (93.0) Rifles - Homestead (85.0) Tall Flags - Los Gatos (88.0) Identification Units - Antioch (87.0) CLASS D Bands - Dublin (83.6) CLASS C Bands - Los Altos (88.4) CLASS B Bands - Westmont (82.95) CLASS A Bands - Antioch (90.7) Parade Sweepstakes winners: Drum Major - Foothill, Pleas. (90.0) Marching - Foothill, Pleas. (184.5) Showmanship - Foothill, Pleas. (281.0) Music - Foothill, Pleas. (458.0) Parade Grand - Foothill, Pleas. (92.35) Field show 1st place winners: Percussion - Foothill, Pleas. (90.0) Auxiliary - Leigh (89.0) Drum Major - Milpitas (94.0) CLASS III Bands - Westmont (86.95) CLASS II Bands - Los Altos (89.75) CLASS I Bands - Homestead (92.00) Field show Sweepstakes winners: Marching - Homestead (283.5) Showmanship - Homestead, Leigh (282.5) Music - Foothill, Pleas. (366.5) Field Grand - Mountain View (92.15) Parade & Field Percussion - Homestead (182.0) Parade & Field Grand - Foothill (183.95) 97Oct05 3:38 pm Cavalier Images from Petrouchka TOP FIVE PARADE BANDS: 1. Foothill High (Pleasanton, CA) 92.35 - Sweepstakes 2. Antioch High (Antioch) 90.7 - 1st Place Class A 3. Los Altos High (Los Altos) 88.4 - 1st Place Class C 4. Wilcox High (Santa Clara) 88.25 - 2nd Place Class A 5. Homestead High (Cupertino) 87.85 - 3rd Place Class A TOP FIVE FIELD SHOW BANDS: 1. Mountain View High (Mtn. View) 92.15 - Sweepstakes 2. Homestead High (Cupertino) 92.00 - 1st Place Class I 3. Leigh High (San Jose) 91.95 - 2nd Place Class I 4. Lynbrook High (San Jose) 91.65 - 3rd Place Class I 5. Foothill High (Pleasanton) 91.60 - 4th Place Class I Looking Up: --- Santa Clara High School. Finally a serious threat after all these years of being a doormat. 3rd Place Parade Class B (79.6) and 2nd Place Field Class II (88.65). Compare to Last year, when SC finish 4th on Field with an 80.3. This was Santa Clara's highest score in about a decade, and the first time I've ever seen them get a field trophy ANYWHERE. --- Westmont High School, Campbell, CA. Forever on the fringes of mediocraty, their 86.95 pushed them ahead of Los Gatos (85.9) by over a point on the field. Compare to last year, when Los Gatos beat them by 3 points. --- Leigh High School. two years after an abysmal "Jekyll & Hyde" show, the new Leigh has new (DARK) uniforms and a new director. Their "Night Forces" show this year finally has them contending for Sweepstakes. --- Homestead High School. Always a field power, they had been getting stepped on by juggernauts Foothill and Mountain View the last few years. No more. Falling Down: --- Los Gatos High School. 88.55 on the street and an 87.90 on the field last year. This year? 80.95 on the street and an 85.90 on the field. A combined PLUMMET of 9.6 points --- Los Altos High School. 93.55 on the field last year, and Sweepstakes runner-up. They looked good enough to be a new juggernaut. This year? An interesting but punchless "Eve of the Hunt" show has them gasping for air at 89.75, only 1.1 ahead of an upstart Santa Clara. That's down from the 13.2 margin the beat SC with last fall. 97Oct05 3:44 pm Cavalier Images from Petrouchka Also looking up: The High School Marching Band scene in NorCal. There are bigger bands this year... MUCH. School: 1996 size 1997 size ------------------------------------------------------ Lynbrook High, San Jose 116 155 Mountain View High, Mtn. View 131 165 Foothill High, Pleasanton 138 165 Leigh High, San Jose 90 115 Homestead High, Cupertino 101 120 Monta Vista High, Cupertino 115 130 Only one noticable drop... Los Altos High, Los Altos 115 95 Granada High, Livermore 130 ??? Fairfield High, Fairfield 205 ??? Lincoln High, Stockton 165 ??? 97Oct08 6:49 am I'm Ghek & URNOT from Ghek the Kaldane Hummm....what is the Sweepstakes designation.....??? 97Oct14 4:39 pm Cavalier Images from Petrouchka Best of the best. First place OVERALL out of every band that participated. 97Oct14 4:50 pm Cavalier Images from Petrouchka The 17th Annual Las Plumas-Oroville Festivo Oct. 11th, Oroville, CA Parade First Place Winners: Tall Flags --- Fairfield I (91.0) Identification Units --- Fairfield I (91.0) Percussion --- Fairfield I (93.0) Drum Major, Open --- Mira Loma (83.0) Drum Major, Mace --- Fairfield I (90.0) Drum Major, Military --- Encinal (89.0) Class C Bands --- Foothill, Sac. (91.25) Class B Bands --- Yuba City (87.05) Class A Bands --- Golden Valley (94.15) Class AA Bands --- Foothill, Pleas. (92.4) Parade Sweepstakes Winners: Marching & Maneuvering --- Foothill, Pleas. (187.5) Showmanship --- Golden Valley & Fairfield I (288.5) Music --- Fairfield I (472.5) Parade Grand Sweepstakes --- Fairfield I (94.75) Field Show First Place Winners: Drum Major --- McQueen (85.0) Auxiliary --- Foothill, Pleas. (86.0) Percussion --- Foothill, Pleas. (88.0) Class A Bands --- Bella Vista (86.75) Class AA Bands --- McQueen (93.40) Field Show Sweepstakes Winners: Marching & Maneuvering --- Foothill, Pleas. (284.0) Showmanship --- Foothill, Pleas. (284.5) Music --- McQueen (379.5) Field Grand Sweepstakes --- Foothill, Pleas. (94.70) OVERALL GRAND SWEEPSTAKES -- FOOTHILL, PLEAS. (187.10) 97Oct14 4:57 pm Cavalier Images from Petrouchka Top Ten Parade Bands: 1. Fairfield 1st Regiment --- 94.75, Sweepstakes 2. Golden Valley --- 94.15, 1st Place Class A 3. Foothill, Pleasanton --- 92.4 , 1st Place Class AA 4. Foothill, Sacramento --- 91.25, 1st Place Class C 5. Fairfield 2nd Regiment --- 91.05, 2nd Place Class A 6. Granada --- 90.05, 2nd Place Class AA 7. John Swett --- 88.65, 3rd Place Class A 8. Los Banos --- 88.3 , 3rd Place Class AA 9. Bear River --- 87.4 , 4th Place Class A 10. Yuba City --- 87.05, 1st Place Class B Looking Up: --- Fairfield H.S. Music: So big, they have TWO marching bands! --- John Swett: Finalyl ready to join the upper echelon? --- Yuba City: No longer a joke! --- Golden Valley: Not bad for their first parade ever. Now that they aren't doing field, they will be a force on the street. Falling Down: --- Fairfield H.S. dominance: Golden Valley will halt Fairfield's 3 year unbeaten streak sometime this year, is my guess. Of Note: --- Durham H.S. (4th Place, Parade Class AA, 85.95) marched 102 members in it's band on Saturday, which is damn impressive: consider that Durham High School (Durham, CA) has a total student enrollment of 315. 97Oct14 4:58 pm Cavalier Images from Petrouchka On tap: Saturday, Oct. 18th - Golden Eagle Spectacular, Loomis, CA Saturday, Oct. 25th - Foothill Band Review, Pleasanton, CA Saturday, Nov. 1st - Grape Bowl Classic, Lodi, CA Saturday, Nov. 8th - Central California Band Review, Merced, CA Saturday, Nov. 15th - Tournament of Champions, Fairfield, CA 97Oct18 5:21 am Pretzel Boy from Ghek the Kaldane Does anything ever happen in Sacramento? Rykor Corral [Dead Sea Bottom] 100 messages oto ew nter ngoto elp Rykor Corral>